Black Raven Dragoons

[Damorte]

Discuss.

[Zancarius]

I first heard about it from Turus via IM. There's a slightly mean but funny story, too. I was reading Slashdot earlier, and I kept coming across comments about MJ's death. I kinda chuckled to myself, because I attributed them to jokes.

Aside: For those who don't know, Slashdot trolls will periodically pick on some public figure and make stupid off-topic comments about them. They're only mildly more annoying than the "Netcraft confirms BSD is dying" oft-repeated ones.

Anyway, when I found out that they weren't tasteless jokes, I felt pretty bad because I laughed.

He was an extraordinarily talented individual. It's a shame he was so misguided. His faults can largely be attributed to his upbringing, IMO. (Yeah, some people can be abused and turn out just fine--but that's not everyone.) Like him or not, the man was a legend in his own right. It's a bit of a shame that about the only things he'll be remembered in popular culture for are: plastic surgery, whiteblackwtf guy, and little boys.

Sadly, it seems talented and extremely popular entertainers tend to lead really screwed up lives. For some it's the drugs ("Hey man, this is Jimi. I don't feel so good."). For others it's alcohol. For MJ, who knows what it was with all the crap he probably had put in his system because he was afraid he was ugly.

Such a sad state of affairs. RIP

[alacor]

Well stated Thal.

[Snobal]

I can't help but notice and giggle a little bit when all of the people who just the other day were deeming him "Jacko" and consistently ridiculing him via media or any other means, are now turning around and glorifying him for his work, talent, influence, brilliance, the list goes on... <b>after</b> his death.

I didn't necessarily agree with some of the things Michael Jackson did, but its undeniable that the man was a master of his craft, beyond master, even. I owe some of the music I hear to MJ, because he inspired so many of my earlier generation to write music. Not only did he inspire so many, but he appreciated those he inspired and their work. He did songs with Justin Timerlake (someone he heavily inspired), and Chris Brown (another he heavily inspired). That's not someone I would necessarily expect someone to do from such a high level... Chris Brown even went on to do tributes to MJ.

Sure, Michael did some really questionable things. Like on Neverland Ranch with the freaking petting zoo and children's rides; however, I believe he had good intent. The intent to simply use his resources to better the lives of others.

And I agree with Thal in saying:

He was an extraordinarily talented individual. It's a shame he was so misguided. His faults can largely be attributed to his upbringing, IMO. (Yeah, some people can be abused and turn out just fine--but that's not everyone.)

But he's not just a

legend in his own right.

He's a legend.

[Zancarius]

him via media or any other means, are now turning around and glorifying him for his work, talent, influence, brilliance, the list goes on... after his death.

So true. It's human nature. People generally say bad things about someone and then when they turn up dead a week later, they kinda go "Uhh, oops?"

I'd say it's a lesson worthy of Gandhi's praise: Be careful what you say about someone, 'cause you never know what awaits around the corner... Not that it matters really. Human nature tends also to be critical of others to the bitter end.

I didn't necessarily agree with some of the things Michael Jackson did, but its undeniable that the man was a master of his craft, beyond master, even. I owe some of the music I hear to MJ, because he inspired so many of my earlier generation to write music. Not only did he inspire so many, but he appreciated those he inspired and their work. He did songs with Justin Timerlake (someone he heavily inspired), and Chris Brown (another he heavily inspired). That's not someone I would necessarily expect someone to do from such a high level... Chris Brown even went on to do tributes to MJ.

Well said, man. Well said.

Sure, Michael did some really questionable things. Like on Neverland Ranch with the freaking petting zoo and children's rides; however, I believe he had good intent. The intent to simply use his resources to better the lives of others.

You know, you're on to something I last heard a number of years ago, but not many people came out to actually say (I guess 'cause the whole abusing little boys thing made for better jokes). The suggestion is very similar to what you're proposing: He had the temperament of a small boy caught in a man's body. In fact, I vaguely remember an interview with him some years back where he said something about "feeling like I'm a little boy" all the time.

I don't think he had the mental capability to really abuse a child when he was technically one himself.

But yeah, you're right. He seemed to genuinely try to do something to give visitors a chance at a sort of fantasy land away from reality. I guess it's something he could associate with: Given his abuse, it'd make sense that he'd want to escape from it all. Poor guy.

Sadly, some of the good things a person does never usually come out until after they're dead. Especially the modest sorts. Now there's suggestions he was abusing prescription drugs which lead to heart failure. If that's the case, it's an even more tragic affair. His attempts at escape from the world would have thus lead to his demise.

As another aside, looking at his earlier work is pretty amazing. His effeminate character is pretty apparent, but regardless of what you think--those dance moves are incredible. Didn't he also work with all the people in his videos for the dance scenes, too?

[Damorte]

Not to be that pathetic person that claims they were on board all along, but, I really was a fan of his. I own all of his CDs and I grew up jumping on the couch screaming at Thriller and singing with The Way You Make Me Feel. His personal life unfortunately derailed his musical career and people focused much more on his train-wreck series of behaviors. He was a guy who never had the chance to be treated like a kid. He was pushed into everything by his father and didn't get the chance to choose his own path. So in response to suddenly praising him after his passing, not everyone is on the bandwagon. I have always praised him. He was wonderfully talented and the music we know today would not be the same without him.

[Zancarius]

Very good points and well said, Damorte.

He was a guy who never had the chance to be treated like a kid. He was pushed into everything by his father and didn't get the chance to choose his own path.

That is the saddest part of this whole thing. Perhaps that's why he always seemed to be a little kid at heart. In effect, he was.

[Lithium]

It was a surprise. That's for sure.

While I laughed and cracked jokes about the whole molestation trial thing, it was hard to imagine that he did the things he was being accused of. I don't think the accusations ever held much weight, really. As others have said: He was like a child. He called his ranch "Neverland", for crying out loud. That's indicative of his nature, I think.

Dave Chappelle made an intriguing point once. Our generation grew up with Thriller, Bad, Beat it, etc. When we were kids, that was the most amazing musician of our childhood.

The kids that he was accused of abusing... weren't even born during the height of his popularity. So why would a child's dying wish (Not just "a" wish, mind you. Their dying wish.) to be to meet a musician they weren't all that familiar with? Personally, I believe Michael was the target of gluttonous parents that were using their sick and dying children as tools, using them to sue a millionaire for vasts amounts of money.

It's a shame that that's what a lot of misinformed people will remember him for. He did far greater things than most celebrities and musicians could ever hope to achieve. He received presidential awards for his charity work, funded so much of his money into helping the less fortunate... and this is what the media chose to glorify. Shame on them.

R.I.P.

[Snobal]

him via media or any other means, are now turning around and glorifying him for his work, talent, influence, brilliance, the list goes on... after his death.

So true. It's human nature. People generally say bad things about someone and then when they turn up dead a week later, they kinda go "Uhh, oops?"

I'd say it's a lesson worthy of Gandhi's praise: Be careful what you say about someone, 'cause you never know what awaits around the corner... Not that it matters really. Human nature tends also to be critical of others to the bitter end.

I didn't necessarily agree with some of the things Michael Jackson did, but its undeniable that the man was a master of his craft, beyond master, even. I owe some of the music I hear to MJ, because he inspired so many of my earlier generation to write music. Not only did he inspire so many, but he appreciated those he inspired and their work. He did songs with Justin Timerlake (someone he heavily inspired), and Chris Brown (another he heavily inspired). That's not someone I would necessarily expect someone to do from such a high level... Chris Brown even went on to do tributes to MJ.

Well said, man. Well said.

Sure, Michael did some really questionable things. Like on Neverland Ranch with the freaking petting zoo and children's rides; however, I believe he had good intent. The intent to simply use his resources to better the lives of others.

You know, you're on to something I last heard a number of years ago, but not many people came out to actually say (I guess 'cause the whole abusing little boys thing made for better jokes). The suggestion is very similar to what you're proposing: He had the temperament of a small boy caught in a man's body. In fact, I vaguely remember an interview with him some years back where he said something about "feeling like I'm a little boy" all the time.

I don't think he had the mental capability to really abuse a child when he was technically one himself.

But yeah, you're right. He seemed to genuinely try to do something to give visitors a chance at a sort of fantasy land away from reality. I guess it's something he could associate with: Given his abuse, it'd make sense that he'd want to escape from it all. Poor guy.

Sadly, some of the good things a person does never usually come out until after they're dead. Especially the modest sorts. Now there's suggestions he was abusing prescription drugs which lead to heart failure. If that's the case, it's an even more tragic affair. His attempts at escape from the world would have thus lead to his demise.

As another aside, looking at his earlier work is pretty amazing. His effeminate character is pretty apparent, but regardless of what you think--those dance moves are incredible. Didn't he also work with all the people in his videos for the dance scenes, too?

You pretty much said everything I was thinking, but wrote it in a better way that I could. You've got a gift man.

The kids that he was accused of abusing... weren't even born during the height of his popularity. So why would a child's dying wish (Not just "a" wish, mind you. Their dying wish.) to be to meet a musician they weren't all that familiar with? Personally, I believe Michael was the target of gluttonous parents that were using their sick and dying children as tools, using them to sue a millionaire for vasts amounts of money.

It's a shame that that's what a lot of misinformed people will remember him for. He did far greater things than most celebrities and musicians could ever hope to achieve. He received presidential awards for his charity work, funded so much of his money into helping the less fortunate... and this is what the media chose to glorify. Shame on them.

/agree

[Zancarius]

Personally, I believe Michael was the target of gluttonous parents that were using their sick and dying children as tools, using them to sue a millionaire for vasts amounts of money.

Damn. Straight. I hope those greedy bastards go to their grave knowing they made a fortune targeting someone who probably didn't have the capability of fully understanding why they were targeting him. Like Sno was telling me last night: Jackson did the whole entertainment thing at his Neverland Ranch probably so he could offer other children who were less fortunate a chance to escape from the harsh realities of life.

Now, I didn't know about the charity work (I should have, ignorance is no excuse in this always-connected age) but it doesn't surprise me in the least. He knew what he grew up with. I wouldn't doubt for an instant that he wanted to do something to make sure no one else would have to suffer.

Most celebrities worry about who they're sleeping with tomorrow. Jackson was a true entertainer--he wanted people to have a good time. It's a shame he didn't manage to make his comeback before passing away...

[Zancarius]

Also in this thread of thought, Google's software apparently though that queries related to Michael Jackson were tied to a denial of service attack on their servers.

Even in light of sad things happening like this, there are always fascinating off-shoots that happen as a consequence.

[Grimblast]

I was pretty shocked to hear he had a cardiac arrest according to CNN and as the day progressed more and more sites started to confirm his death. I think all that can be truely said and praised has already been posted so all I can say is he will be missed.

RIP

[Zancarius]

Gonna bump this. There's some word out from people who worked with Michael Jackson. I'd really suggest you guys read this forum thread.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... ut-mj.html

[Damorte]

He was a huge fan of Nine Inch Nails Downward Spiral

Thats awesome, what neat stories they have.

[Lithium]

That would've been awesome to see him rock out to Reznor's stuff. I wonder if he knew Jackson was a fan.

Knowing the artist Reznor is, there was probably a huge mutual respect there.

Edit: Reading through that link you provided again, Thal, the bit about Notorious BIG being humbled by MJ was a very cool, personal, story to read.

Thanks again for that link. It was unlike anything the media ever could've provided. That's for sure.