Black Raven Dragoons

[Alikasia]

Ok, so we all know how the ah works . . . sell high . . sell higher and just plainly rip your fellow players off. I am one of the few who actually sell things for a reasonable price, not just undercut my competition. If I put something in the ah (which is rare nowadays) I look at the price it starts as, decide if it is reasonable, and place the buyout about 50s-1g more (if this makes any sense).

In any case, I was playing on my horde toons on thorium brotherhood today, trying to gather up some cash for my 60 druid. I was surprised when I looked on one of my alts, I had 3 stacks of wool (which go for 4-6g), a stack of 20 silver ore (priced at 50g in the ah) . . . the list goes on. No wonder the horde have a hard time gearing up. Not only are reagents priced out of the sky . . . but armor and weapons are as well. So . . . being the reasonable person I am, I offer my 20 silver ore in trade for 15g . .. a huge undercut, but priced higher than it really should be anyway. it sells immediately and the buyer turns around and places it in the ah for 45g.

Ok . . . whatever. All I know is I sold it, I am 15g richer and I did not pull anyone's teeth out. Why such the hype for huge amounts of gold? I also sold my wool for 2g a stack . .. this economy sucks . . . poor horde.

[Zancarius]

My only guess is that it's a smaller economy, which would probably mean that prices are more steeply affected by demand (limited demand = higher prices, and a smaller economy means limited supply). Since the Alliance-side involves more people, there's a greater supply, often to the point that it exceeded the demand, lowering price. IANAE (I Am Not An Economist), but that would be my guess--population.

It sucks when you try to sell something for a fair price, and the purchaser immediately puts it on the AH for far more than they got. I had that happen to me exactly once, on Shandaria, when I was first playing the game. I sold some cheesy weapon to a guy for about 5 gold (about a gold or so more than the vendor price), and he started talking in Trade--single-city trade back then--wishing to sell it for 15. It wasn't as much of a hike as what you ran into, but it was the same principle. I learned my lesson: If I want to sell a good, I sell it on the AH or to someone who makes arrangements who I know and trust. Otherwise, it goes on my banker or the gbank. When it comes to crafting goods and consumables, however, I tend to look at the market value and undercut the lowest price there, rather than putting it up at a reasonable cost (you get screwed in that case). And--always wait until the market saturation for that product has faded. Selling eternium bars in a saturated market will net you maybe two gold a bar. When the bars are rare (production has slowed), you can net between four and eight gold a bar.

As an aside, I've never really seen the Horde as having gearing issues. They tend to acquire gear far faster than the Alliance once they hit level cap because of their ability to win most battlegrounds. Even if they don't obtain as much honor in some cases, such as AV, they still tend to get marks for BGs that the Alliance finds a bit more difficult.

[Tirian]

Building on what Thal said, the easiest answer is that there is a supply/demand imbalance there of some sort. My immediate thought would be that the Hordies, for whatever reason, are not farming these trade goods to the same relative extent that we Allies are. This may be that they have fewer lower level characters working their way up for the first time (my first thought, actually), or simply that there is less of a gathering culture on this side (less likely, in my opinion, but theoretically possible).

On a related note, I really have no problem with AH resellers, though the instance Thal mentioned is really crass. It's one thing to resell that very item in the bloody trade channel, and another entirely to, say, buy a boatload of nature-resist gear, potions, enchantment mats, etc. in anticipation of rising prices from the next patch's unveiling of Trollifornia, a new 15-player instance battling the leaf-flinging Zul'Cannaba hippy trolls as they try to stop Gnomean technological progression.

Actually, what this conversation has inspired me to look into is creating neutral and horde auctioning toons on our server to route products over to their side, something I've often thought about but never bothered to really put into action. If you can make so much more selling to the Horde, it may be worth the trouble.

And if I see Blizz use this, I'm going to sue for a cut.

[Sonikku]

My only guess is that it's a smaller economy, which would probably mean that prices are more steeply affected by demand (limited demand = higher prices, and a smaller economy means limited supply). Since the Alliance-side involves more people, there's a greater supply, often to the point that it exceeded the demand, lowering price. IANAE (I Am Not An Economist), but that would be my guess--population.

It sucks when you try to sell something for a fair price, and the purchaser immediately puts it on the AH for far more than they got. I had that happen to me exactly once, on Shandaria, when I was first playing the game. I sold some cheesy weapon to a guy for about 5 gold (about a gold or so more than the vendor price), and he started talking in Trade--single-city trade back then--wishing to sell it for 15. It wasn't as much of a hike as what you ran into, but it was the same principle. I learned my lesson: If I want to sell a good, I sell it on the AH or to someone who makes arrangements who I know and trust. Otherwise, it goes on my banker or the gbank. When it comes to crafting goods and consumables, however, I tend to look at the market value and undercut the lowest price there, rather than putting it up at a reasonable cost (you get screwed in that case). And--always wait until the market saturation for that product has faded. Selling eternium bars in a saturated market will net you maybe two gold a bar. When the bars are rare (production has slowed), you can net between four and eight gold a bar.

As an aside, I've never really seen the Horde as having gearing issues. They tend to acquire gear far faster than the Alliance once they hit level cap because of their ability to win most battlegrounds. Even if they don't obtain as much honor in some cases, such as AV, they still tend to get marks for BGs that the Alliance finds a bit more difficult.

Worry not. Blizzard is buffing Alliance and nerfing Horde yet again in AV in 2.4.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&pageNo=1

And yes, much of it is due to a smaller population. With fewer items on the auction house there is more demand between them. When I get serious about grinding trade skills I usually buy in bulk Alliance side and smuggle the goods through the Booty Bay auction house, otherwise they would be too cost prohibitive. I bought the items Ladelle and I will be needing for our Warlock and Paladin mount quests respectively and I'd say we saved over half, with Ladelle's end costing being about about 266g and mine being about 432g. (I really have to shudder to think of what I would have paid Horde side for the latter, the items for the Blood Elf quest are unique to Horde and carry with them far higher demand in and of itself) Finding Healers and Tanks is also much more difficult Horde side, there are just fewer people.

Old outlands







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5oHucJj90s

[Lithium]

Expanding on the reason that population is one cause of AH imbalances, here is another that hasn't been really taken into account: Farming deterrency for Horde. I'll state my case. QQ inc.

Every now and again, I'll face the fact that I need to farm up certain primals. The costs are just too high to buy them, so I have to farm them. I sigh a little bit, because I know damn well that when I show up on my Horde toons, guess who's there? Always, always, always (Not sure if I mentioned it: Always) 5-10 Alliance toons already tapping the mobs dry.

Anyone that deals with off-peak time farming or contending with people of the opposite faction they can't group with figure "Hey, I had to put up with a lot of bull for this.", and charge an arm and leg. I don't agree with that sentiment, hence why I farm my own, but I can get why it costs so much for primal fires and such.

On top of that, from the perspective of someone who has played both sides extensively, a *lot* of Alliance (With the exception of a few upstanding guilds - BRD being one. <3 ) will tag steal from *eachother*. Just imagine what they do to Hordies.

I can't tell you how much spit my priest's robes have soaked up, but I can guess that it's enough to fill up a swimming pool; it's just bad form on their part, and yet another deterrent. Who wants to stand around getting rude emotes while they attempt to farm? Not I.

There are certain members of the Horde that are guilty of doing this to eachother as well (A good lot of TMY members come to mind), just to clarify that Alliance aren't always the "bad guys" - but at least 7 times out of 10 it's some guy from Second Nature doing an insta-tag into the mob I'm casting at.. promptly followed by a /spit and /rofl.

I'm all for faction rivalry in PvP and whatnot, but c'mon. Some unflagged guy trying to mind their own business and farm stuff doesn't deserve to have their mob stolen just because the other person disapproves of the faction they've chosen. Or they're just doing it to be assholes. Whichever.

Anyway. Food for thought.

Miss you guys.

[Snobal]

When it comes to farming primals and the like I'm a fairly reasonable person. If someone has targeted a mob and begun to cast I will not steal it or anything. But the *first* time someone steals my kill and laughs at me, you get one angry gnome. At that point I hop on the epic flyer and icelance any elemental in sight.

I do know what you mean when you say alliance does it to *eachother*, I have people steal my kills from the alliance all the time.
I used to try to whisper them and reason with 'em but that got old fast.
Now that I think of it, I don't remember that many instances where someone from the horde side has stolen my kills. But those few horde that have stolen my kills go all out (emotes, hoping on alliance characters, etc.) Yes, once I had someone hop on an alliance character to yell at me. -_-
I'm sorry to say that alliance has a lot of rude, unreasonable idiots. (I do realize I'm not one to talk)

I would like Blizzard to maybe jump the spawn time on some of the elementals for those of us who *need* the materials.
This would lower the prices of primals on the AH and therefore cease farming by those who farm the elementals for funds.
I know that primals are a good way to make money but come on... think of the other people out there who need those primals for epics, skill gains, etc. There is more to getting gold than just primals...


We miss you too Lith! Come visit me on the alliance every now and then. And hop in TS as well.



<3 Sno

[Zancarius]

There are certain members of the Horde that are guilty of doing this to eachother as well (A good lot of TMY members come to mind), just to clarify that Alliance aren't always the "bad guys" - but at least 7 times out of 10 it's some guy from Second Nature doing an insta-tag into the mob I'm casting at.. promptly followed by a /spit and /rofl.

That's because being an arsehole is "second nature" to them, if you get my drift (I mean--they DO have Legendz in their ranks, that should say something). To some people, raiding is a bit more important than reputation. If you recall, I made a post in the Terenas forums about reputation, and I believe Legendz' specific reply was along the lines of 1) he didn't care what his in-game reputation was because 2) it doesn't affect him in real life. I'd assume most people who tag mass-tag mobs have that same general philosophy. It's interesting that the polite players are the few who feel that their reputation in-game is just as important to them as their reputation in real life. After all, not everything is computer-driven. We are dealing with other people--the same sort of other people who feel and think like any other (some notable exceptions notwithstanding). Oddly, it's the immature players who overlook this little factoid. Coincidence? Probably not.

However, the whole farming problem could be avoided if Blizzard were to increase drop rates and spawn rates (mobs and nodes) as zones become more heavily farmed. I'm sure they have a reason to avoid doing this, possibly with what impact it might have on the WoW economy. But, being as it's a game, it tends to get frustrating if all you need is one last primal, but you can't get it because the mobs are being farmed into oblivion.

[Tirian]

While I don't really buy into any argument that the smaller population in itself is the problem (a smaller population should not automatically see price increases because supply and demand should both be lower, proportionally), it could be a factor. I think Lith (who I have not actually had the pleasure of meeting - hi!) hit it right on the head and that the key problem for Horde likely is that they are being outfarmed by the legions of Alliance, both mature and otherwise. If I need some copper and all the nodes I know have been cleared, I can buy it on the AH from the industrious little midgets that beat me to it. However, if I'm Horde, likely those resources will never make it to me because they're currently awaiting buyouts in IF. So maybe the problem, ultimately, is that Alliance are successfully farming at a proportionally higher rate than Horde than our respective populations would suggest. If I was a complete loser, I would start making an argument about how this is similar to colonial exploitation.

I hope I didn't take that too far...

Regarding tag stealing, I have people steal my mobs that way all the time. Also stealing nodes that I am clearly after but am currently stuck in combat and can't get at. The worst is doing anything at all in the Netherwing mine. For me, I would say I have this happen equally often with Allies and Horde. Normally I avoid doing this myself and apologize if I do it by accident, but like Sno, if someone does it to me I make it my afternoon's entertainment doing it back to them. For some reason, this usually involves Tauren hunters and Undead rogues... haven't figured that part out yet.

[Snobal]

I can buy it on the AH from the industrious little midgets that beat me to it.

:O Was that a reference to gnomes?!?!

*Brings out the dough-roller*

[Tirian]

*a silence fills the room as Tirian avoids the Snobal's cotton-candy-headed glare of fury*

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Huh, who knew I could RP...

[Lithium]

Hey Tirian! Nice to meet you as well.

And I *do* remember that post directed at Legendz, Thal. I offered up my own response, which he stated he didn't understand at first - so I simplified it - and then he completely sidestepped. Give it a look sometime, you'd enjoy the humor surrounding how he dodged it.

And I'm with you guys. If someone tags my mob the first time, I'm forgivable. It could have been a mistake, after all. But the second I see a pattern, I start using my Shadow Word: Death or wand to tag faster and fight back. I am to blame to a certain extent for using a 3-second cast to pull (Holy Fire), but I figure it's a courteous way to let people know I'm casting at something - Kind of an honor-system type thing. But I forget; a lot of people don't have any honor.

I'll randomly pop in TS to see what's shakin'. Take care guys!