Black Raven Dragoons

[MaxRile]

As most of us know a massive 8.9-7.1 earthquake hit japan late lastnight/early this morning. The death toll is in the thousands and climbing (7000 as of this morning)and following it was a 10-13 foot high tsunami that hit with anof force to remove and uplift Cars,Semis,Boats,Homes,small buildings,and even bridges , Its also reported to hit the West Coast of the United States with 2 feet high waves and Hawaii with 5-7 feet high waves.

Roads were Split in half by as more then 6 feet

7+2+Magnitude+Earthquake+Hits+North+Japan+S4s-vGBLGW3l.jpg (146.81 KiB) Viewed 5471 times

What is left of Yamada town is in a Blaze

207492-yamada-town.jpg (81.63 KiB) Viewed 5471 times

Small Buildings were toppled if not tilted over by the Quake and or tsunami

earthquakes-in-japan.jpg (36.06 KiB) Viewed 5471 times

First of 3 actual waves that hit

images.jpg (9.47 KiB) Viewed 5471 times

[Zancarius]

What's disconcerting is that this isn't the first part of the Pacific Rim to have gotten hit (think New Zealand). It's just awful... I don't think words can truly capture what has happened to the Japanese, and I'm certainly not going to pretend to try. I will be pretty pissed off if our nation sits on its hands and does nothing to assist, regardless.

Interestingly, I think I've seen that last picture before, and I'm pretty sure it's a photoshop/stock photo used in place of others.

Ah, it is. According to Snopes, that last picture is a photoshop of Antofagasta, Chile. The news agency that posted it probably wasn't aware of the image's source or was using it as a placeholder.

Either way, though, the photos of the actual tsunami that destroyed huge swathes of land (and swept away hundreds if not thousands of people) are menacing. I saw some video of it as it swept along the tarmac of an airport. It looked very ominous. It wasn't as fast as you'd expect from movies, but it was fast enough that you couldn't escape by running.

[Tirian]

Last I heard earlier this afternoon, there was concern over a Japanese nuclear plant affected by the quake declaring an emergency. I heard this in Ukrainian news... the Japanese and Ukrainians share an unusually high level of cultural sensitivity to nuclear matters. In any case, I've heard no updates since.

[Zancarius]

Jar was reading some of the news on TS this evening, and it looks like 5 reactors were affected as of this writing. I think there were 1 or 2 with some potentially "serious" issues (one apparently leaking coolant--contaminated or not, I don't know).

Course, I can understand the Ukrainian take on nuclear issues given a particular incident that happened many years ago. Same for the Japanese, though under much different circumstances and had nothing to do with power plants.

[Tirian]

Exactly... nuclear power are a bit controversial in both those countries

So, our news is obviously now picking this all up. Latest sounds like there's fears of one station having an explosion. Let's hope not...

[Zancarius]

Looks like there was one...

Although, according to the article:

The explosion was caused by hydrogen interacting with oxygen outside the reactor. The hydrogen was formed when the superheated fuel rods came in contact with water being poured over it to prevent a meltdown.

Could be bad, but it doesn't sound like it fractured the containment structures.

Here we go:

Yaroslov Shtrombakh, a Russian nuclear expert, said a Chernobyl-style meltdown was unlikely.

"It's not a fast reaction like at Chernobyl," he said. "I think that everything will be contained within the grounds, and there will be no big catastrophe."

In 1986, the Chernobyl nuclear reactor exploded and caught fire, sending a cloud of radiation over much of Europe. That reactor - unlike the Fukushima one - was not housed in a sealed container, so there was no way to contain the radiation once the reactor exploded.

I'd imagine it could wind up like Three Mile Island, though, if it vents.

[Zancarius]

More

[Zancarius]

Types of reactors in Japan

Looks like the one that's having problems is a boiling water reactor.

[Gnomegrenade]

I have an old friend living there feeding me updates via Facebook. Apparently it's worse than what's being reported.

Can you say "melt-down"?

Stay tuned.

[Gnomegrenade]

"Simply amazing! This disaster is a primary example of why I want to stay here. It has been 4 days since the earthquake and yet there is no examples of rioting, no looting, people are waiting in line for supplies as they become available and everyone is doing their best to help each other. Even with shelf empy in the markets, there is no complaint, no outrage. Compare this with Hati, Chile, New Orleans. Particularly with NO, this is far far worse with a much greater death toll and look at the stark difference in the response by both the first responders and the victims. I will gladly deal with earthquakes and tsunamis to live here."

Pretty amazing if you ask me. Had this been New york or LA...people would be shooting/stabbing each other.

I'm sure he'll post more and I'll be sure to keep the posts coming.

[Tirian]

Well... the Soviet citizens in the fallout zone behaved like this after Chernobyl too... sometimes a little civil disobedience is a good thing!

[Zancarius]

Right now, the "explosions" aren't too surprising. Zirconium can generate a great deal of hydrogen at the temperatures that are likely given the state of the reactors right now, and it's trivial for that stuff to explode once it escapes. Reading the commentary from some atomic energy experts (not the talking heads on TV), I suspect this isn't going to be nearly as bad as Chernobyl. Totally different reactor designs for one, and I'm pretty confident that the Japanese technicians are doing everything they possibly can to get the reactors under control.

From what I've read, the zirconium cladding comes apart and melts at about 1200F. The fuel rods melt at about 5000F. The steel reactor vessel is supposedly 6" steel, and even if that is melted down, there's the containment building itself that's designed (hopefully) to contain anything that comes out, preventing it from exiting the structure and entering ground water. There seems to also be a number of things they can do in the event that happens--though many first responders would die, and the risk of atmospheric contamination would be grave. Right now, as long as they can cool the fuel rods, I don't think there'll be anything other than hydrogen out gassing.

Take a look at this picture showing the containment building. The top part that blew off was a tin structure that appears to only shield the containment building from the elements. I've read from some sources that it's basically designed to be destroyed in the event of an out gassing like what has happened, hopefully preventing rebound pressure waves from damaging the reactor itself.

Course, none of this stops the anti-nuclear crowd from surfacing. Never mind that Japan had a 9.0 earthquake followed by a massive tsunami that swept away the reactor's support equipment, backup generators, and flooded many (all?) of the battery rooms. If the Japanese can cool the reactors down and get them under control, then I think we have much to learn from what they've done.

Though, I guess we do have a lot more to learn from the Japanese. Considering New Orleans after Katrina and the relatively small scale bit of destruction that wrecked and the general behavior of our population following that disaster, I think I'd rather be in Japan if I had to choose a location to be in during such an event.

[Zancarius]

Looks like I was wrong, a fire at a fourth reactor may have caused the release of radioactive materials.

Since that's a Russian site, I suspect Tirian will read the original article!

[Zancarius]

This article doesn't look good, although it's light on details. It's vague one which structure, but I'd guess it's the outer containment structure that's damaged. I'm also not sure why there'd be a huge leak unless the reactor itself was compromised, unless it's due to the attempts they made at relieving the pressure.

[Zancarius]

Status update as of March 19 on the reactors in Japan.

It seems like they've been getting things more or less under control.

For some background information, here are two additional articles that explain why another Chernobyl in Japan is (was?) impossible. If you've been worrying about the situation, you really need to read both of these articles. They're about a week old, but the information they contain is very important.

Don't let the press scare you into thinking this is going to be another radiological disaster equivalent or greater than Chernobyl.