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Article about guilds on wow.joystiq.com

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Article about guilds on wow.joystiq.com

Postby Grimblast » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:04 pm

I checked out an article about "How Guilds Die" over on wow.joystiq.com and it does have some interesting and well learned points about what can make a guild die. I can say we are pretty healthy thanks to past lessons similar to what the author detailed was their inevitable end but still worth a read for those interested in the topic.

I've been the guild master of the 'Goons for all the years the guild has been in existence and we have had our ups and downs but in the end it takes an awesome member base. There's no way I could've held all this together without the help and assistance of all of you. For those old and new in the guild, I'm thankful you all stick around or choose to keep returning to us thanks to our casual guild format, loss of sanity, and all around family-like nature :)

Or at least posting in the forums because once a 'Goon, always a 'Goon! :D

PS: Yeah, it's cheesy but I'm very thankful for all the people I've met in this game and figured this was a great opportunity to get a plug out there to all you awesome people! I owe a lot to everyone that has helped over the years, especially my best friend Thalaria/Talvarie for all of the assistance I have gotten. Now back to work for me. Catch yall online!
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Re: Article about guilds on wow.joystiq.com

Postby Zancarius » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:12 pm

I can't help but read that article with the thought that the Mr. Andrews can't see the forest for the trees, so to speak. One shining example that comes to mind is his officer who mysteriously quit and never gave him any indication as to why. Rude? Maybe, but I see the symptoms of much deeper problems that are not necessarily the fault of the individual who left.

Now, before anyone suggests (correctly) that it is, at the very least, the polite thing to do to notify someone in-game that he wouldn't be playing again, there is something we should each be reminded of: WoW is a game. Games are intended to be a form of recreation. It's easy to lose sight of this, and I think that's largely what happened in Mr. Andrews case. When Turus linked this to me earlier, he mentioned that the author's folly was to be (and remain) a hardcore raider, I couldn't agree more. It's true. We've known plenty of raider-types, and while they share some common attributes, their vagabond-like treatment of guilds is probably their most visible characteristic. They go where the loot is.

I don't have any evidence to support my claim, but I'd wager that as a whole the player population of WoW is increasing in average age. There are obviously many implications if this is true, but I think the most important among them are that as we get older, we suffer from 1) reduced patience, 2) reduced time to play, 3) less desire to feel obligated to play a game (and games should be fun first and foremost) as a second job. This is also where casual guilds will generally succeed.

Ever notice how the majority of casual guilds tend to have an older (25+--physically and/or mentally) population? Ever notice that casual guilds generally don't take things too seriously? Ever notice that casual guilds generally don't pressure people into positions, force them into runs, or guilt-trip their members into staying active? This isn't an accident.

The formula we've had works, and it's worked well for a very long time. We've always maintained roughly the same population and activity, although I would argue that it has been increasing over the years. This formula works because casual guilds like ours know the game isn't a job. It's a community.

That's the point Mr. Andrews seems to be lost on. Hardcore raiding is clearly the sole form of entertainment he gets from the game (see his last comment where he said he'd quit if he couldn't raid), but I honestly believe he has absolutely no clue on how to maintain an active community. It's anecdotal evidence, I realize, but given Terenas' own history, it seems to me that hardcore play habits and long-lived communities are mutually exclusive.

Actually, I don't even need to point to Terenas as an example, because WoW doesn't live in a vacuum. If you look at any significant online community (forums, in particular), you will notice that the successful ones share a common formula:

  • Leadership isn't necessarily aggressive, except toward abusers (spammers, harassment, etc.); leadership is usually lenient, but this also depends on the focus of the community. Most family-oriented communities will be less lenient toward certain language, for instance, but the principle is roughly the same.
  • Meritocracy over all: Leadership positions are generally voluntary. Moderators (officers, whatever you'd like to call them) are typically promoted by the merit of their labor and not because they're "needed." Assignment of duties is something you do in a job. Acceptance of volunteers is what you do in a community.
  • Mutual respect is important, perhaps more so than anything else, but the respect of each others' time is the most important.
  • Everyone has their own life outside the community. The community is not life. I've seen far too many communities and open source projects fail because the leadership loses sight of this and makes unrealistic demands.

Raiders have never exhibited a thorough understanding of successful communities. If they did, it seems to me that the concepts are lost the moment they win their lewts.
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Re: Article about guilds on wow.joystiq.com

Postby Highgrade » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:07 pm

Thal has it right the thing that we all understand is that this is a game. But i feel that the "goons" is more than a guild. I would truly claim yall as friends in game or out, unless you need bail money. As an officer I too would like to thank all the members, officers, and new recruits for continuing to add to my recreational experience.
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Re: Article about guilds on wow.joystiq.com

Postby Tirian » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:15 pm

I love you guys.
Letting the demon do the work for me since 2004.
I play to some degree: WoW (EU now, US before), Guild Wars 2 (EU), SWTOR.
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Re: Article about guilds on wow.joystiq.com

Postby Zancarius » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:29 pm

Yrael wrote:Thal has it right the thing that we all understand is that this is a game. But i feel that the "goons" is more than a guild. I would truly claim yall as friends in game or out, unless you need bail money. As an officer I too would like to thank all the members, officers, and new recruits for continuing to add to my recreational experience.


A good friend will help you hide the bodies. A great friend will be sitting next to you in jail saying "Dude, that was awesome!"

Tirian wrote:I love you guys.


Totally Platonic, I'm sure.
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