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Arizona politics

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Arizona politics

Postby Grimblast » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:45 am

I don't usually post much about politics since it can be a sore subject to some but this one made me laugh.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... eZ3wZdFmSE

For those not familiar with the border states, we have a lot of measures in place to verify if you are an american citizen via border patrol check points. We've experienced these questions and check points for so long that it's accepted that they are doing their job. Of course, they aren't just checking if you are a citizen. They are checking for all sorts of other things as well(smuggling of items, people, other illegal acts). If they ever suspect something, they can go as far as inspect your vehicle.

The law that passed in Arizona is the first I've heard of that type of search. I'm curious to see how all this pans out. I'm not so sure New Mexico will adopt that kind of law for now but the governor will be on his way out I hear so the attitude of things here may change.




And a supporting funny pic because I can't be too serious.

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Postby Damorte » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:36 pm

I am embarrassed for my state. Seriously, an open invitation to be racist. "Show me your papers!" Sound familiar anyone? *coughnazicough*

And to your awesome car, I raise you a John Stewart.
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Postby Zancarius » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:08 pm

Eh, it's not much different from this latest monstrosity that got passed. "Oh, no health insurance? Well... IRS for you!"
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Postby Tirian » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:37 pm

Thal, I hate the health care bill, but it's nowhere near this thing in Arizona. Giving the cops the right to check people's documents without provocation? Oh yeah, other countries do that... Russia... Belarus... China... and yes, formerly Nazi Germany.
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Postby Zancarius » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:15 am

Hey now, don't invoke Godwin's law. I haven't had a chance to insult anyone. Nevertheless, I was trolling (it should've been obvious) since few things annoy me more than the phrase "I'm embarrassed to be a <insert phrase here>." Don't be embarrassed, do something! Regardless, my subversive point was essentially that, given the ridiculous measures that we're seeing passing through Congress, it should be no surprised what individual states are doing now that we're effectively having a regulatory free-for-all.

I don't like the idea that we're essentially already living in a police state, and I think Arizona has made the wrong decision on how to deal with unkempt illegal immigration. Maybe its my morbid sense of humor, but I find the entire situation absolutely hilarious.

I've had my share of issues with immigration authorities in spite of rarely leaving the country (to visit family in Aussie land many many years ago). I can't tell you how many times border agents stopped me when I was coming home from school (there's a checkpoint between Las Cruces and Alamo) and asked half a bazillion questions, effectively holding up traffic during a peak hour for what I can only surmise as their own personal amusement. Unless they thought I was German, I'm not sure why they'd hold back some pale pasty geek and inquire as to his whereabouts, his goingabouts, his roundabouts, "what's in the bag?" and so forth (though they were welcome to do my schoolwork, if they so desired). And that's to say nothing about what they did to an African American friend of mine. Same checkpoint--they'd almost read him the riot act up to and including pulling him over to examine the vehicle in spite of no reasonable suspicion other than skin color. Somehow, I don't think a black person immigrated illegally from Mexico...

The point being: This goes on in the border states more often than you'd think. The difference is that Arizona's vague laws have made the issue much more visible. I can understand a reactionary approach to the law given the tensions that exist--and possibly the fairly recent murder of a rancher not too long ago--though I disagree with its execution. I don't have an appropriate solution, and given that northern Mexico is completely out of hand and running under fear of the drug lords, I think the situation is only going to get worse if it starts spilling into border towns (and it has, given El Paso's state).

We really have ourselves to blame for it all, though. Given that a driver's license is no longer much of an ID card and more of a "yeah, I can drive card" as there is seldom any check as far as I know to ascertain one's citizenship status in some states, you cannot use that alone. Worse, following the health care debacle that recently passed, some of our lovely congress critters were discussing a national "can work" ID card to quell the hiring of illegal immigrants. I don't know about you, but it seems to me that forcing a national ID card upon people before you're allowed to legally work is unlikely to achieve any goal other than creating more hoops to jump through for legitimate employment.

Eh, signs of the times, I suppose. Everyone's nuts.
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Postby Grimblast » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:54 pm

For us in New Mexico, it may only be a matter of time and politics.

http://www.alamogordonews.com/alamogord ... i_14980257

It seems some of the candidates for sheriff in the area here say what Arizona is doing is good. I figured it would be only a matter of time before someone started talking about it in a political fashion. They mention Texas is considering a similar measure. I doubt our existing Governor(spendzilla) would go along with such a measure but he is on his way out. No politicians in the state have said they would support such a thing but as things go on, I'm sure we will hear more about it.
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Postby Zancarius » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:39 pm

Turus wrote: I doubt our existing Governor(spendzilla)


You mean "chinzilla." The man has more chins than I have fingers (and toes).

The whole situation is a mess. The border is a mess. Something does need to be done, but I'm afraid any attempt to do anything is going to be labeled as "racist."
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Postby Damorte » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:24 pm

Don't be embarrassed, do something!


I agree! And if I had the opportunity to vote on this I would. I did not vote for this governor, she was "promoted" when our governor took a federal position with Obama.

But what really gets me about this whole thing is the people who vehemently defend this as a way to "protect American jobs." Have you ever done the jobs these people do? Have you seen the people competing with them for those jobs? People who stand around complaining that the government doesn't do enough for them, they don't get handed everything, they say no one helps them.

A bunch of CRAP.

I didn't get handed SHIT, I earned my degree and am 6 months away from a second degree, I own half of a pest control business and I have my own small business. All so I wouldn't HAVE to compete for those kind of jobs. I am a single mother, you think I could afford school? Fuck no, I borrowed and applied for scholarships and grants, I asked the government for a hand UP not a hand OUT.

My point is that the people I hear complaining the loudest (other than the celebrities and random other state politicians) are the people who refuse to go out and bust their asses to make themselves a better life. They expect the government to be a givernment and take care of them regardless of whether or not they are willing to put in an effort. My exhusband for one, sat on his ass for a year mooching off his wife waiting for the Dept of Corrections to call him. He finally got the call, went to their basic training, then went to work....for a week. He quit. Now he's bitching about not qualifying for unemployment and he's trying to find enough home-repair jobs to keep his bills paid and claims that if the Mexicans stay he will lose his job. No muther fucker, you had a good job, you busted your ass for like half a second and you BAILED on it. You have no one to blame but yourself. If the American dream is to succeed, then it shouldn't be about "but I don't get mine!" it should be about working hard for what you want.

My fiance supports the bill, and he has his reasons. He works as a groundskeeper, his supervisor has only been legal for 6 months but has been his supervisor for two years. He works with almost all Mexicans (let me clarify why I did not say Hispanics: they're all from Mexico) who loudly and proudly admit they have forged paperwork. Hes pissed and frustrated and I understand. Something most definitely needs to be done, but you're right Thal, anything passed will look racist.

Myself, I am not sure what to think about the whole thing, it has valid arguments on both sides. Ideally we could reform immigration without dealing with skin color, but I don't see that happening. The only thing I can say for sure is I wish it would have been put to a vote so we could really see what the people wanted, not what our legislature wanted. But I don't think they put things like this on ballots. Regardless, it probably won't see the light of day, the feds are all pissy because it steps all over their toes and state's rights are not a high priority right now.

K, now that I've proven just how little I really know about politics: Have at me!
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Postby Zancarius » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:44 pm

Damorte wrote:Ideally we could reform immigration without dealing with skin color, but I don't see that happening.


As long as the media needs ratings, any "reform" is going to be labeled as racist. Actually, I think the media is doing more to divide the country than to report "news" (notice how "news" these days is almost exclusively political in nature?).

Good to see how hope and change works out.
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