Black Raven Dragoons

[Tirian]

I was in a pug with our old friend Rsd the other night. He was playing some of his usual tanking games, that spunky scamp. He couldn't hold the aggro worth crap, so instead of questioning his talents, gear and the deeper meaning of his soul... he blamed the DPS DK in the group, pulled every mob in the room and dropped group. Sound familiar?

Well, needless to say, antics like this required a little chat. You can see the results in the image. Just to note -- the DK never "charged" in any form, talent or otherwise. Rsd wanted to continue the conversation -- not only with me, but also with CD -- but I had to get back to work and threw down a /ignore.

By the way, we found a new tank in less than five minutes... weirdly enough, the DK "stopped" "charging in" after that.

[Grimblast]

He has a funny idea of what support is. Can't support someone that literally did something wrong. I remember him vividly. What urks me the most is he thinks he was in the 'right' for ninja'ing an item and pulling that same bullshit on that party he was with. I don't condone that sort of party work. When you carry our guild tag, you represent us as a guild. I'm not going to drone on about him since I'm in a bad mood as it is from work but I will say this. He pretty much admitted to ninja'ing and never apologized to that group he afflicted. Of course that sort of behaviour would mean he would get booted. The group he did that to took a very diplomatic approach to the problem and RSD was called out on it and even though he told us the truth he boned himself by admitting he did the deed.

[Zancarius]

I recall that incident as well, because I was one of the ones who spoke with him. I generally won't speak poorly of people in public unless I have just cause. In this case, I think the cause is just. Not only has he resorted to insulting the guild as a whole (again), but he's also proven himself to be a sexist.

We're all a bunch of girls.

Fancy that. Maybe he has a point, though, most of the guys in the guild have/have had female characters. Otherwise, to the women in guild, here's a tool who seems to think that being a girl is somehow an insult. He's gonna go far in life, all right...

Anyway, I think it's comical that his attitude hasn't changed at all. Evidently, it's impossible for him to connect his own attitude and behavior with the treatment others afford him. Word to the wise: It's easy to joke about the Golden Rule, particularly if you're not religious, but it does apply. Human interaction is something of a meritocracy. If you come off as an ass, you're not going to endear yourself to those who would be willing to support you! In Rsd's case, that's precisely what happened. He received no support from officers and guildmates a like because he wasn't willing to work with us to resolve the event Turus referred to.

The Story

For the uninitiated and curious, I have a brief story I'd like to share of my recollection of the guy (with a few things filled in that Turus reminded me of when I was talking with him earlier today after sharing Tirian's experiences). Here goes:

One of us received a dramatic whisper on an otherwise lovely evening. I recall that it was quite uneventful, and I was working on my shaman's mining skill since I had been planning to drop mining on Thalaria. My endeavor to replace mining with jewelcrafting has, of course, nothing to do with the story. What I do remember is that I wasn't the one who received the initial whisper from a distraught priest who had been in a group with Rsd (I think it was Alacor or Snobal who did), but I do recall having my time in Un'goro interrupted because of a dispute that required my undivided attention. For what it's worth, the priest in question was part of an SGA guild, and I was informed by Alacor of the incident via officer chat, along with some notes on what had transpired. He requested those officers who were online at the time to join him in TeamSpeak on the merit that it was far too complicated to type everything that he had thus heard. Complicating matters further, Alacor was also trying to relay part of the discussion he was having with Rsd via whispers. TeamSpeak has a great deal of utility when it comes to this sort of thing.

As it was explained to me, there was an epic (purple) world drop healing trinket (BoE NOT BoP) that had dropped in a heroic instance Rsd was in on his hunter. (It is important that I stress this: He was on his hunter and ]not the character he intended to use the trinket on.) As is the practice with most ninjas, Rsd had clicked on need after everyone else had passed since the rules at the time were generally pass first, discuss, then [icode]/roll[/icode]. The priest mentioned that it would've been a highly suitable upgrade for him/her and, as far as I know, asked if he could have it, buy it, or roll for it. It makes sense; after all, the priest was on the run, he was rolling for his main, and he could use it. This is where several inconsistencies entered Rsd's story. I'll try my best to explain each alternate explanation the he provided, individually, Alacor, Snobal, Turus, myself, and then all of us once we were in a party to discuss the mistake.

But first, I am compelled to explain a few things. The events Alacor, Sno, Turus, and I were dealing with together transpired after Rsd had left the party (booted, I believe, but whether that actually happened or not escapes me now; I think he may have left of his own volition). This afforded Rsd with some time to think and possibly even concoct a few alternate explanations for his behavior. It became clear that he was lying to us simply by the nature of his myriad inconsistencies. Worse, he had no idea that we were all communicating via officer chat and sharing the individual accounts he presented us via tells. Naturally, none of them agreed.

The first variation that came to either Alacor or Sno was that Rsd had rolled on the item and claimed that he won it "fair and square" (his words). The priest, however, had informed us that he offered to pay for the item in question, but Rsd had simply left the party without any further exchange for better or for worse. Actually, that's something of a lie--I believe Rsd mentioned that he could use the item on his alt for healing. Though, the only other alt that he could have used such an item with was Rsd himself: a prot pally. He wasn't known for respec'ing and his random appearances at strange hours would have put him at odds for being selected as a healer on any of our runs. Mind you, that last bit is mostly incidental; many of us have unusual hours and play when we have time. The crux of it being that he wasn't the sort who would have respec'd to heal an instance as he felt his calling was that of a tank. Tanks don't need healing trinkets.

The second variation that he had later explained to Turus was that he was going to give the item to the priest but forgot to pick it up. This later mutated into the suggestion that he had picked it up but couldn't find it in his bags. He later went so far as to claim that he may have accidentally sold it to a vendor. Regardless of which variant was most popular in his reasoning at the time, the story he stuck with for our Fearless Leader was that the item had gone missing, he was hoping to give it to the priest, but he couldn't because he didn't have it. How someone comes across an item, loots it, is seen looting it in the chat log but claims not to have it and loses it in his own bags has either encountered an extraordinary bug of which Blizzard might want to be made aware, is stupid, or is lying. Of course, we know he was a liar, because most courteous individuals would have stayed in the party long enough to rectify the situation. They would have also apologized. Rsd didn't.

The story he told me was so grossly disconnected that I can't recall much of it. I suspect this was largely because I had been asking him via whispers why he didn't take it upon himself to correct the dilemma he had created with the priest. He continued to explain, to me anyway, that he had won the item in a fair roll (familiar?) and wasn't going to give it to the priest because the priest "was being a [expletive deleted]" (probably rhymed with "ducksquad").

During the course of this discussion, we partied with him and requested his presence in TS so we could each as him questions individually. He was cooperative, I admit, but reluctant to express any willingness to rectify the situation he had created for us. Let me first explain our rationale: We've had to deal with reports of loot ninjas in our guild in the past. We deal with each report fairly, and it is our believe that it is inappropriate to first presume guilt without proof. There are plenty of people in the world who will claim they have been screwed over without actually having had anything dreadful befall them. This bit highlights the philosophy to which we subscribe and it is one that unfortunately appears to have escaped Rsd: We were more than willing to work with him and hear his side of the story. It's just unfortunate that the venomous words he used shortly after our inquisition soured any hope of us accomodating his wishes and concerns. Given his hostile behavior to each of us, he inadvertently loaned great credence to the words of the priest. (Of course, being as the priest was from a well known SGA guild, we had little reason to believe he or she was actually lying, it's just that Rsd's attitude made the decision significantly easier.)

Since my written recollections of this event are growing rather long, and I'm not fond of issuing a lengthy dissertation over someone who is now little more than an incidental bump in our recent past, I will simply add this. I vividly recall that, when we had asked him why his story was so inconsistent and queried why he couldn't so much as apologize to the priest for his behavior, he said something to the effect of "Maybe next time, but it's mine now." (Never mind that he claimed on separate occasions that he didn't actually have anything.)

I also distinctly remembering that Alacor told him, "With that attitude, Rsd, there won't be a next time." Alacor went on to explain that we each wasted well over a half hour contending with this matter, reminded Rsd that he was less than cooperative in offering a resolution, and that he would be far better off in the midst of a guild of likeminded individuals. Rsd was promptly booted.

Much of the interaction between Rsd and Alacor transpired via whispers, and so I felt it necessary to gloss over precisely the sorts of things that he said as it isn't quite my place. If Alacor were available, I'm sure he would be better able to weigh in on the things Rsd shared with him directly. I do recall that he had few kind words to share with Al, including but not necessarily limited to the suggestion that Alacor was an inept player who didn't know his class and had no business playing the game. He also called Alacor names that I refuse to repeat in mixed company. Those are things that probably don't rhyme with "ducksquad."

The guy was a scumbag. He demonstrated immense disrespect toward Alacor (Al had spent several days helping Rsd in his selection of gear and giving him pointers), the guild as a whole, our time, our intelligence; he displayed that he was incapable of adequately resolving spats he himself had provoked; and furthermore, he was awash in the notion that, of all things, he was being picked on by us and that his way was right and just. There are, of course, two sides to every story, but for the curious reader, I would strongly advise against hearing his. He likely doesn't remember any of these events, but I can guarantee that his description of us as a gaggle of "backstabbers" couldn't be further from the truth. To resort to such words after we spent a significant amount of time--and resources--resolving something he created for us is something I will not soon forget. Laughably, after being booted, he complained to one of us (who I can't remember) that "Alacor kicked me from my guild."

I can't think of many of our regulars who even knew the guy much less liked him. How that constitutes separating him from "his" guild when the guild is most assuredly ours is beyond me.

For the record, we offered to craft a healing mace for the priest whose gear at the time was rather poor. He was grateful for our generosity and graciously accepted our gift. If nothing else, we wound up with at least one ally out of this. I'm also thankful that ally wasn't Rsd.

[Snobal]

That's pretty much how it went down... And to clarify:

(booted, I believe, but whether that actually happened or not escapes me now; I think he may have left of his own volition)

Alacor kicked him from the party as we were getting ready to gkick him. Good times...

[Zancarius]

I was talking about the party he was in; the gkick came later.

[Snobal]

I thought we actually got in a group with him to talk to him openly. My bad coach.

[Damorte]

Guys like this ruin the game for a lot of good, fair players. I am very very glad to never have run into this asshat during my excursions in Azeroth.
My coach once told me when I was frustrated and angry with my soccer team during a national tournament in which we were losing miserably to every team we played, (17-1 in one game, we were WAY misbracketed): "No one plays a job, they work a job. That's why we're here and not at work." It was sad at the time to be 14 and having to be reminded to play for fun, and not for work. I think a lot of people in WoW have driven themselves to the point of work and treat their entire existence in Azeroth as a life they must succeed in, no matter who they step on while stomping their way to the top.

I feel bad for this boy, he has taken something fun and enjoyable and turned it into a corporate ladder. We may have to deal with his antics, but only he has to live with himself. Well, ok... maybe his mom.

Now, you're all getting to know me fairly well so surely you know that I must address the girl comment. Whatever douchebag thinks being a "girl" is an insult should look down, undo his pants and position them at his ankles, grab a 10-lb watermelon and attempt to squeeze it through his penis.

Not only is it well documented that women have a much higher pain threshold than our penis-laden counterparts (better tanks), we are also very adept at multitasking (better heals), we are nurturing and caring by nature (better druids), and we have a mean streak once a month (better DPS). Now of course, all Goons already know this as highly intelligent, polite, and mature males of our species.

This cumwad needs to pull his tiny tool off the microscope, accept that his nuts have been reduced to old sawdust and rotworms from lack of use in the real world, and crawl into his mother's hide-a-space under the stairs never to return to our beloved Azeroth again. There are people that simply cannot socially interact appropriately with people on any level, either realistically or virtually. It is a sad thing when a person can successfully alienate the outside world as well as the pixels in an online game.



PS: No I am not really claiming girls are better at WoW. =P

PPS:

wasn't going to give it to the priest because the priest "was being a [expletive deleted]" (probably rhymed with "ducksquad").

WTF rhymes with ducksquad??

[Highgrade]

fuck wad...... and i think he was the first person i ever /gkicked lol

[Zancarius]

I thought we actually got in a group with him to talk to him openly. My bad coach.

We did. I didn't write that bit very clearly. The part I don't remember is whether he left the group he ninja'd from voluntarily or whether he was kicked. I seem to recall that he got angry with them calling him a ninja and left...

It was sad at the time to be 14 and having to be reminded to play for fun, and not for work. I think a lot of people in WoW have driven themselves to the point of work and treat their entire existence in Azeroth as a life they must succeed in, no matter who they step on while stomping their way to the top.

I don't really think that's his problem. I think his problem is largely attitude-related. He's never raided (that I'm aware of). Rather than turning WoW into a job, it's more of an issue of his belief that he's right and everyone else is wrong. It'd be far more appropriate to quantify his activities as having a chip on his shoulder. We spent a great deal of our own time (game time, that is) and resources dealing with him and correcting the mess he left us with. His reaction is that we stabbed him in the back. If he truly believes it, then he's a fool; otherwise, he's simply trying to convince himself that what he did wasn't wrong. But given that his behavior follows him around, it seems to me that he believes the following:

1) Everyone else is at fault no matter what
2) He can do no wrong
3) If he gets kicked from something, it's because the people in charge are [insert creative insult here]

Not only is it well documented that women have a much higher pain threshold than our penis-laden counterparts (better tanks), we are also very adept at multitasking (better heals), we are nurturing and caring by nature (better druids), and we have a mean streak once a month (better DPS). Now of course, all Goons already know this as highly intelligent, polite, and mature males of our species.

OT, I know but I have to weigh in here...

I used to believe this, but the problem is that pain is a vastly complicated reaction of the nervous system. In fact, it might be more appropriate then to consider that it isn't a matter of one sex having pain tolerance that is higher than any other (we're all humans, after all); rather, it may be that different sexes are able to tolerate different kinds of pain.

Also, some studies are biased in favor of one sex; based upon your comments, I assume you may have read ones that indicate women are better able to tolerate pain than men. Take, for example, this study that suggests men are better able to withstand pain than women--with regards to the specific conditions of this test. It's likely that this particular study may have been biased in favor if men. To help illustrate my point that there may in fact be no differences at all, I would like to point out another bit of research that states this:

Factors other than stimulus characteristics are also relevant. Situation variables are important. For example, the sex of the experimenter can affect sex differences in pain estimates when this factor is exaggerated by selecting "attractive" experimenters (e.g., compare results of Levine and DeSimone, 1991 with Feine et al., 1991). The setting is also relevant. Somatic stimuli that are delivered in clinical settings (such as venipuncture and post-operative incisional cleaning) fail to show sex differences (Lander et al., 1990).

In my opinion, the jury is out on this one. There are simply too many variables.

WTF rhymes with ducksquad??

Think about it... you've got one of the words already in your question!

fuck wad...... and i think he was the first person i ever /gkicked lol

Shucks, HG beat me to it.

I thought Alacor booted him?

[Damorte]

Do people really call other people fuckwads? What is a fuckwad?

OT, I know but I have to weigh in here...

I used to believe this, but the problem is that pain is a vastly complicated reaction of the nervous system. In fact, it might be more appropriate then to consider that it isn't a matter of one sex having pain tolerance that is higher than any other (we're all humans, after all); rather, it may be that different sexes are able to tolerate different kinds of pain.

Also, some studies are biased in favor of one sex; based upon your comments, I assume you may have read ones that indicate women are better able to tolerate pain than men. Take, for example, this study [psychosomaticmedicine.org] that suggests men are better able to withstand pain than women--with regards to the specific conditions of this test. It's likely that this particular study may have been biased in favor if men. To help illustrate my point that there may in fact be no differences at all, I would like to point out another bit of research [bbsonline.org] that states this:

Quote:
Factors other than stimulus characteristics are also relevant. Situation variables are important. For example, the sex of the experimenter can affect sex differences in pain estimates when this factor is exaggerated by selecting "attractive" experimenters (e.g., compare results of Levine and DeSimone, 1991 with Feine et al., 1991). The setting is also relevant. Somatic stimuli that are delivered in clinical settings (such as venipuncture and post-operative incisional cleaning) fail to show sex differences (Lander et al., 1990).

In my opinion, the jury is out on this one. There are simply too many variables.

I agree with much of this, actually almost all of it and am about to disprove myself: this article points out that a woman's pain tolerance could very well be associated with her menstrual cycle, and as such the hormone levels being able to affect the pain tolerance of a person would weigh heavily toward the side of men as their hormones tend to stay at a relatively consistent level as compared to women. This would also explain why women can shit out babies as the hormones are vastly different during a pregnancy and I'm fairly convinced its to assist with the birthing process by dulling some pain sensitivity. I quite honestly never bought into the theory that women have higher pain tolerance no matter what (I'm a wimp, I cry at paper cuts), however it is fun to throw around as a wonderful unfounded claim when attempting to make a joke, albeit a poor one.

I don't really think that's his problem. I think his problem is largely attitude-related. He's never raided (that I'm aware of). Rather than turning WoW into a job, it's more of an issue of his belief that he's right and everyone else is wrong. It'd be far more appropriate to quantify his activities as having a chip on his shoulder. We spent a great deal of our own time (game time, that is) and resources dealing with him and correcting the mess he left us with. His reaction is that we stabbed him in the back. If he truly believes it, then he's a fool; otherwise, he's simply trying to convince himself that what he did wasn't wrong. But given that his behavior follows him around, it seems to me that he believes the following:

1) Everyone else is at fault no matter what
2) He can do no wrong
3) If he gets kicked from something, it's because the people in charge are [insert creative insult here]

He just might be an asshole, but since I love using what I learn in school, I have to use my knowledge and experience with child-development (I'm a teacher ). Depending on his age, and he sounds either young or emotionally developmentally behind,so he will have a hard time self-assessing his behavior. Children generally do not even begin to self-assess until the 3rd grade, while he may be well above the 3rd grade, the average 10th grader is also inept at self-assessment. In the teens self-assessment tends to be very over-confident, the classic invincibility behavior. If he is in this mental growth period, usually lasting until approximately mid-20s, from what I've read, and I apologize I cannot locate my old sources, he is actually unable to recognize that yes he can make mistakes, and yes its ok to be wrong. So this chip on his shoulder could really be a developmental deficiency that each of us experience as teenagers to different degrees, his appears to be of a very high degree. Also, a teen who over-confidently assesses tend to lag on other skills such as reading, social or self-awareness skills, and communication skills. If he's not a teen, this development, if not supported by positive growth and behavior encouragement can last throughout his life. I work with a guy like this, pisses me off endlessly that he can't just admit he doesn't know something or that he made a mistake, and he's 27 years old!! You know people like this I'm sure, especially in the IT field, programming, and gaming industry. They tend to chose jobs that leave them isolated and struggle when approached in any social manner by either not talking at all, talking out of their ass, or blurting out strange useless facts about fruit bats. Now obviously I have NO CLUE if this poor boy is struggling with over-confident self-assessment and I am SO not a psychiatrist, but his behavior just reeks of it. Or maybe he's just an ass with a chip on his shoulder.

K thats my shpiel. I <3 this guild.

[Snobal]

Do people really call other people fuckwads? What is a fuckwad?

They're cousins of the

This cumwad needs...

(I'm a teacher )

I'm sorry. If you ever need to talk, I'm here for you.

[Highgrade]

Wow, to many intellectual people here. i love that you both right a paragraph and my post consists of a swear word and a short sentence. I dont remeber who actually did the boot but it was fun none the less lol.

[Zancarius]

If he's not a teen, this development, if not supported by positive growth and behavior encouragement can last throughout his life. I work with a guy like this, pisses me off endlessly that he can't just admit he doesn't know something or that he made a mistake, and he's 27 years old!! You know people like this I'm sure, especially in the IT field, programming, and gaming industry.

I get the idea he might be in his early 20s. I can't really verify that, mind you, but he did mention having to work at odd hours and a roommate. He could be older.

The thing that's really entertaining (to me, because I'm a troll) is to disprove people like him in the most obvious fashion possible, particularly if it involves something they've done. It usually makes them even angrier which adds to my personal entertainment. In Rsd's case, reasoning with him angered him greatly; he wanted us to simply buy his side of the story. The problem is: His story was inconsistent. You can't buy someone's story if it changes.

Lesson: If you're going to be a liar, be consistent.

Edit: I think he's well aware of his behavior (not necessarily developmentally challenged--that'd give him a crutch). That's why he's a jerk.

[Caidis]

I remember this! Alacor was here the night all of this went down, he was not happy. Pretty sure I hid somewhere until it was over...