Black Raven Dragoons

[Zancarius]

Earlier this evening, the prospect of a transfer from Terenas to another realm was raised, and I think it is something that should be brought under discussion well before the option is available to us. To instigate such discussion, I offer two questions:

1) Will you be planning on leaving Terenas?
2) Why or why not?

I will attempt to avoid biasing this thread by keeping my own opinions silent until I believe the discussion has sufficiently taken hold. I would like to hear every concern, regardless of how small or insignificant it may seem. Character transfers will eventually be offered, and I would like to see the guild remain as coherent as possible.

[Lithium]

Everyone pretty much knows how I personally feel about Terenas. The people I love are the only thing that makes me want to stay.

If we could get the mass portion of the guild to transfer, then that's the only time I would do it. I don't want to leave behind awesome people that I enjoy playing with immensely.

I realize we all have contacts we don't wish to leave behind... but personally if it would benefit the guild (lag free runs), then I would have to say goodbye to my own contacts outside of the guild. As they say, to make omelettes, you must first crack a few eggs. Cliche, but applicable.

In any case, my vote is that it would be to our interest to move everyone. But if the majority chooses to stay, I will have to say I will remain. It's better to be on a subpar quality server with friends than on a superior quality server, but all alone.

That's my two cents.

[Cephalxn]

i think that lith pretty much summed up how i feel... of course i have my own personal reason of me being australian and not really having any runs when it's the best time for me... but that's just stupid because i'd be leaving with you guys anyway...

so yeah, if the majority wanted to move, i'm all for it.. if not, then i'd rather stay with friends

[Snobal]

First off im glad you brought this up. Now to get to to what the subject is about. The ansewer to question number one can go both ways for me. Depending upon who in the guild stay and who in the guild goes will be what i base my ansewer upon. So in other words if five people in the guild were to go i would stay. If the majority of the people go that i love playing the game with i will go. But to help encourage others to go who are a little bit shaky on things . A new server most likely has few farmers . We can be the first guild to do big things and rub it in peoples faces ^^ jp . Last but CERTAINLY not least.No lag even in ironforge ! Those are just a few things. I will not base my decision on people outside of the guild. I lean towards doing the transfer but am not 100% behind that due to all of the things i have explained above.

[Aigle]

Seeing first hand the frustrations we all have with the lag and constant disconnects on Terenas, I myself have contemplated switching servers. Lith pretty well summed up my thoughts on the issue, too. Even though I'm fairly new with Dragoons, if the idea presented itself I'd switch also. Hard to find good people (competent ones at that ) on this game anymore. I thoroughly enjoy grouping with you guys, and the conversations in guild chat are hilarious =P

[Zancarius]

And now for my $0.02 worth (note: due to fluctuations in the exchange rate and international markets, the equivalent amount you receive may be worth more or less)...

It may surprise all of you to hear this, but I'm really quite fond of Terenas. In spite of its deficiencies, of which it has many, it really does have quite a few good people on it, which is my primary reason for staying. Needless to say, there is a reason my character list for Terenas is nearly full.

First, the selfish reasons.

I have 3 L60s on Terenas and numerous characters near or above L40. If I were to transfer, I would consider it an "all or nothing" endeavor. I have built each of these characters in support of the others through their crafting, and I would refuse to leave any of them behind as such. Frankly, I hardly entertain the notion of transfering that many characters.

The auction house is another concern of mine. I buy a lot of goods on the AH. I know from past experiences that the AH on a virgin server is entirely worthless for up to a year. You simply cannot find anything worthwhile to buy. Admittedly, the prices hardly suffer from inflation due to the lesser infiltration by farmers, which helps those in my position (but not for long, continue reading). Heaven help you if you try to make gold on the AH in return--the economics simply are not there and take a fairly lengthy period of time before they are well-established.

I have a few real-life contacts and friends who play on Terenas and have played here since day one. Nothing against the rest of you--and I'm sure my decision stands to change dependent upon what the guild chooses--but if they choose to stay, I suspect I will as well.

Further, while many raiding guilds are full of arrogant players, there are some that are very helpful and friendly. Turus and I have both been asked by members of Oblivion (formerly Shadow Allegiance) if we would like to attend runs of theirs due to their need for our classes. I like to have that option available, and I know damn well that the option remains available to any of you. We have pretty strong ties to members of decent raiding guilds, and I think that isn't something we should overlook.

...and now my concerns.

One of the most significant reasons I have heard cited for leaving Terenas falls squarely on the existence of farmers. We all know from observations and stories that a farmer can reach level 60 in two weeks or less. Changing servers won't eliminate the farmers; it may delay their progress but within a few months, the new server will be plagued with exactly the same issues. I also suspect farmers may have their own accounts transfered to facilitate the process (remember: it isn't an option that is only available to us!).

Lastly and my most pressing concern. With the expansion, Blizzard is planning to upgrade all of the day zero servers with the new hardware afforded to new realms. I'd feel a bit silly, personally, if I went through the trouble of a character transfer only to discover that the performance issues have been resolved. While the farmers are a nuisance, I don't think apathy is the best course of action. PvE realms will always be plagued by them unless we are diligent, and frankly the only thing that stands to force me off of Terenas is the evening latency spikes. Beyond that, everything else is bearable.

Ultimately, I think the decision falls to the guild. If the choice is made to transfer, then that will be the most suitable option for all of us. Terenas as it stands is a blessing and a curse; there are a lot of people who will interfere with your questing, but if you're in search of a group, there's plenty of people on the server who might be willing to go along. New servers don't have the luxury high populations offer. Indeed, while new servers may not have raiding guilds, it's only a matter of time. Consider Terenas a snapshot of your average server about a year and a half later; transfer now, and the new server might find itself in precisely the same situation, minus the lag.

Condensed, this is what I see regarding the transfer:

Pros of transfer:
1) Resolved latency
2) Low population
3) Few initial farmers at the outset
4) Few raiding guilds at the outset
5) Beginning-game economics

Cons of transfer:
1) Present server may be fixed
2) Low population
3) Inability to find useful items at our level on the AH
4) Inability to sell useful items on the AH
5) Beginning-game economics

Pros of Staying:
1) Latency will be resolved when an upgrade is established
2) High population makes finding others fairly trivial
3) Plenty of materials available on the AH, including ones that can only be acquired by 40-man raids
4) Over-abundance of items can be gotten rid of via the AH at a fairly decent price
5) End-game economics

Cons of Staying:
1) Ongoing latency
2) High population
3) Well-established farmers
4) Well-established raiding guilds
5) End-game economics

Thus, these are my reasons. Certainly it might be fun to start fresh again, only at level 60, but it's hard to establish the ties that we currently are afforded and the opportunities we do have. I am afraid that many guildies are most strongly motivated to leave at the behest of on-going latency-related issues (and issues that will reappear on the new server, such as farmers). Sometimes it's better to stay with the evil you do know than the one you don't.

However, I will leave my post with a few predictions. One: I suspect Blizzard will not be offering free transfers away from Terenas to a virgin server. Many past transfers were offered to relatively new, non-virgin low population servers. Second: The expansion is nearing release which is when Terenas is slated for upgrade. IF Blizzard allows free-transfer away from Terenas, it will most likely be prior to expansion release. My recommendation in this case would be to avoid transfer if at all possible simply because many of the issues that are currently game-breaking stand to be resolved following upgrade.

Should the time present itself, we will put it to a vote, but bear in mind that I feel many decisions are currently motivated by an issue Blizzard will fix in the near future. I would also highly recommend the paid-transfer FAQ; free transfer is a bit different, with more restrictions in some regards, but many of the issues still remain:

http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowbill ... =abl02008p

[Edit]

One restriction I forgot about: All characters must be at least level 10 to be transfered. If you have a personal banker (and guild bankers, for that matter), they cannot be transfered unless they are L10 or higher *and* they will be subject to a 300-gold maximum limit.

[Lithium]

A good list of both sides to weigh, indeed. I just see it as this: Yes, they say they will fix the lag. Over. And over. And over.

If we are to wait for the expansion, how much longer do we want our runs to be fucked up for? 3 more months, when October is upon us?

It is nice to see that there are raid guilds that give the option of raiding without being in a raid guild. Unfortunately, and this is a selfish look on it, I am a paladin. I am not needed, nor have I ever been offered a spot with these contacts - they're a nonexistent issue for me personally.

The farmers come and go, but, if we are able to guild bank and stockpile mats before they arrive, we'll be golden. There are ways to work around them before they arrive on a new server, whereas Terenas is already doomed.

That's just my own take on it. 75% (Literally) of my recent runs have been called due to lag. Not because of a bad group (They were all guild runs), not bugged mobs... lag. And it's just so fucking frustrating to have the numbers and ability to do it... but still be unable to due to technical flaws that will continue to persist for a few more months.

Personally, I'd rather go to a server and have our guild runs, than sit with my thumb up my ass unable to run with you guys because we're continually promised (and denied) a fix on the issue.

There's no way I'm waiting until October to be able to run things without fear of a latency assfuck in the middle of the run.

[Zancarius]

Unfortunately, assuming Blizzard does not offer free transfers, the only option available to Terenas will be the paid transfer, in which case waiting for their upgrade cycle might be the only reasonable alternative. I know I certainly am not going to pay $25 to move a character I will not be able to play for 5 days.

[Grimblast]

I think I'm too patient. I've been frustrated with the lag and due to my equipment it is a pain in the neck to die or wipe in an instance. I still hold a liking for Terenas since I can still brag that I'm one of the oldest characters on the server. I hate the lag and I have to agree it would be nice to have a run that is lag free. Things to consider if we truely do switch servers: who can afford the transfer and what is the timezone the server is in. We all know that it would suck to log in to a server during it's rush hour of players. I have a friend that is on a new server that is 3 months old and I will ask him what the latency is like. If we all truely go batty or make the decision to move, we could hit the server he is on. Since it is a new server and has the new server hardware it would be something to look forward to. Now with the expansion Bliz did promise that all servers would be fleshed out with the new hardware so they have to get it done before they make the expansion live in the beginning of October. So they have August and September to get that done. That's my buck'o five.

[Aigle]

Valid points both you and Thal have made. I myself can't really afford a server switch (monthly payments is actually a stretch right now). But if you all were to switch I'd probably do it, too. There's only a handful of people I really talk to outside of the guild, many of whom actually stoped playing the game because of the latency problems. Playing it by ear from here seem's like the best idea.

[Zancarius]

I agree, I'm more fond of the notion to take a wait-and-see approach. The paid transfer in my opinion is not an option. There's far too many caveats involved for my liking (not to mention only servers older than 3 months are eligible to receive transfers--so farmers will be well-established by then). If we do make the consideration, it'll have to be when a free transfer is offered for Terenas. However, if the offering is made just prior to the expansion, I would strongly advise reconsidering since the situation at that point will have already changed drastically.

I still hold by my predictions. Blizzard probably won't offer a free transfer for Terenas until just prior to or after the release of the expansion. They might be holding us back as a benchmark to see how markedly improved performance is after a hardware upgrade and then determine if the realm should be made eligible for a free transfer afterwards. Perhaps it's just my morbid suspicion at play, but I think Terenas has been a bit of an experimental production server from day one.

Actually, some interesting history about Terenas. When Turus and I first started the commercial version of WoW (blame him for getting me started... he said "hey man, here's a 10-day trial--you liked open beta, give the commercial version a try"), we were going to join Doomhammer, as it was the realm several people on the DESTRealm forums chose. Unfortunately, it went down shortly afterward and later that evening, Terenas appeared as a new server. I almost have to believe that Terenas may have been one of the open beta servers they were hoping to decommission but couldn't because of the massive influx of players.

I might be dead-wrong about this and Terenas may have been fresh out of the box (I have heard stories that indicate many of the opening-day servers were actually machines boxed away in the warehouse that they were expecting to add several weeks after opening--since opening day saw so many players, many of their backup machines became production servers). Who knows?

[rosario]

all great valid points guys some ppl can afford to transfer others can't, as you all no i am a loyal leaving and joining guildy, yes my characters leave certain guilds but i am always loyal to my friends that i have made through WoW.
Since that is my main reason for staying on teranus that if
lithium alacor or snobal leave teranus for any reason i will be moving also without hesitation good friends and competent players are hard to find and these three i have known for ages all through the dark equinox times
so my two cents is if that any of those players leave this realm millita and maybe even rosario WILL be following.

no offence at all to other members of the guild I know that you are all great and competent players.

and if we do stay in teranus i hope to get to no all of you as well as i no those three

[Romur]

Are transfers Free ?[/b]

[Zancarius]

There's two types: paid transfer ($25 to transfer to any eligible realm; can only be done once every 6 months) and free. The free transfers are only offered on realms Blizzard chooses and only for a period of a few days (AFAIK).

Thankfully, with the hardware upgrade, I think the point is moot on Terenas. Or at least I hope.