Black Raven Dragoons

[Zancarius]

http://www.smartertechnology.com/c/a/Te ... r-Indoors/

I'm not so sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, it's a great way to plan out your shopping trip to a place you've never been before. On the other, it's a great way to plan nefarious deeds against said shopping center.

Maybe that last bit is just a touch of paranoia. If some terrorist really wanted to blow up a mall, they can probably afford to--I don't know--visit it in person! Still, don't you think we're taking this whole "let's map everything and put it online" a little far? Next they'll be tracking my potty habits. (Fortunately, I have a secret weapon: It's called onion.)

[Snobal]

If Google doesn't, someone else will. So either way its happening. Its kind of concerning in my opinion but like you I'm a pretty paranoid person...

[Tirian]

The GIS community, I expect also the CAD community, are already worried about this.

[Zancarius]

If Google doesn't, someone else will. So either way its happening. Its kind of concerning in my opinion but like you I'm a pretty paranoid person...

I don't necessarily think that anyone else has the capabilities of Google in this regard. Google clearly has experience in the field (Google maps).

Not to make you more paranoid, but considering the Google maps API allows you to do some pretty interesting things (like mapping outbreaks--the CDC does this), I can only imagine what the implications of extending this API to cover indoors would be...

The GIS community, I expect also the CAD community, are already worried about this.

I think I can understand the GIS community's concerns, but why the CAD community? I might have a mistaken understanding of what you mean.

I worked across the hall in an office complex where a CAD home designer had his establishment. Given that they'd design the entire house and not simply the floor plan, I don't imagine they'd see much threat from Google. I suspect this is responsible for my bias; I'm curious, could you explain further?

[Snobal]

If Google doesn't, someone else will. So either way its happening. Its kind of concerning in my opinion but like you I'm a pretty paranoid person...

I don't necessarily think that anyone else has the capabilities of Google in this regard. Google clearly has experience in the field (Google maps).

Not to make you more paranoid, but considering the Google maps API allows you to do some pretty interesting things (like mapping outbreaks--the CDC does this), I can only imagine what the implications of extending this API to cover indoors would be...

There's always Microsoft.

[Zancarius]

I have little faith in them. Given what it would appear that Bing excels at, I can only imagine what their "indoor mapping" software might do.

[Snobal]

LOL yeah... but they still have the capabilities, no matter how much they *slurping noises*

[Tirian]

Ok, I wasn't totally clear...

The GIS community is not so much "worried." Rather, the introduction of indoor floor plans in map-related software -- in both 3D and 2D, by the way -- presents ethical questions that have to be explored, just like you mentioned. This is much more prevalent in the part of that community that works with software and data meant for public/layman's use, like Google Earth.

I should note that there's a significant part of the more technical and academic sides of the GIS community that would be pissed for me to even throw this type of software in with "GIS." Like, my girlfriend. But that's a side note.

As for CAD, well, when you start getting into 3D, the CAD and GIS communities meet. Would my uncle, who designs air conditioners in CAD, care? Hell no. I just mean those people who are in this sub-section.

To add a little related food for thought. I've worked with people in archeology, cartography and engineering who do 3D models, etc. A lot of them, depending on where they are in their process, move back and forth between ArcGIS and CAD. This isn't something I know much about -- I've watched it, I don't know how to do it -- but I've seen it in these different settings, so it must be at least somewhat prevalent. One engineer I work with actually liked to make 3D models of public buildings in his free time and then upload them to Google Earth. Normally this was fine, but he got in some trouble when he uploaded our office building, complete with every office on the inside!

[Zancarius]

That makes it perfectly clear, Tirian. Thanks for answering my question.

Creating public buildings in CAD and uploading them to Google Earth certainly is an ethical issue. Satellite data, maps, and even Google Streetview--no matter how much people in a community might be opposed to it--are still bound by publicly visible parts of a building. Tourists could achieve the same things, admittedly with less automation, but it's still the principle of: If you can see it from the curbside, it's publicly visible. This isn't so much the case for buildings.

I can see some utility in mapping malls and other public facilities, but where does it end? The publicly accessible front foyer of a building? Of a doctor's office? What if there's a bathroom down the corner that isn't exactly a public restroom but visitors anticipating some sort of service in the building are allowed to use it? Do you get permission from every tenant in a complex before you can map it? What if 10 out of 25 don't want their offices mapped? They're not the majority and a placeholder office would indicate that their leased section exists? Are the hallways of a shared office "public space" and does the curbside rule apply there? What if the realty industry starts mapping buildings and houses for sale, posting them on Google Earth or Maps? Do they get taken down once they're purchased? Even if they didn't, once the information is out there, someone, somewhere will have it saved.

[alacor]

What if the realty industry starts mapping buildings and houses for sale, posting them on Google Earth or Maps? Do they get taken down once they're purchased? Even if they didn't, once the information is out there, someone, somewhere will have it saved.

Most Realty web sites offer floor plans and pictures of the house on the market. Some have virtual tours. So in some form it already exists.

[Zancarius]

This is true.

However, the reason why it's a concern with being mapped by Google is that Google Maps (and Earth) have fairly well-established APIs (Application Programming Interfaces). This makes it trivial for other developers to interface with their data and do just about anything. There are some outbreak-tracking sites, for example, that use Google Maps as a foundation for their positioning data.

Aside from PDFs and uploaded images, most of the realty sites I've seen that offer indoor tours of houses use Flash in conjunction with special photographic equipment to take 360 degree views. Fortunately, Flash is not indexable and the Internet Archive generally avoids archiving large objects (including Flash). I don't know if this has changed with the adoption of other technologies web-wide, but my general take is that realty firms follow the path of least resistance--and Flash is pretty easy to develop for, even if it's one of the worst technologies ever developed.

I'm still torn. I can see some great utility in this for tourists. And terrorists. (Admittedly, the latter is more likely to scope out a given target for months and plan ahead of time--so I'm sort of jesting with this.)